"Europe Has Problems": An Interview with a British Journalist About the Kremlin's Dangerous Game and Agreements with Trump

European leaders are once again seeking contact with Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump is increasingly distancing himself from supporting Ukraine, and the Kremlin continues to speak the language of ultimatums. Amid talk of peace negotiations, Russia shows no desire to end the war. On the contrary, it is trying to use diplomacy to undermine Western unity and extract concessions from Kyiv. And while some are looking for a way to reach agreements with Moscow, others risk failing to see what the Russian dictator is truly after.

British journalist, editor of Ukraine Alert at the Atlantic Council, and publisher of Business Ukraine magazine, Peter Dickinson, explained in an exclusive interview with 24 Channel why Putin needs to resume dialogue with European leaders, how Donald Trump views Russia’s war against Ukraine, and why, in his opinion, Washington might have deliberately put pressure on Kyiv.

Why Does Putin Need Calls with European Leaders?

European leaders are talking to Putin again. Ukraine is achieving successes on the battlefield, while Russia is sending mixed signals about its economy and negotiations. Why is Putin now interested in talking and engaging with European leaders?

I think that from Putin’s perspective, they recognize that they need to talk to Europe. They need to talk to Europeans because they understand that Putin’s entire strategy is to “outlast” the West and, essentially, achieve his goals in Ukraine. After all, the West will lose interest, lose support, distance itself, and become distracted by what’s happening in its own domestic arenas.

And with Trump, this strategy was very successful. Trump really did steer America away from its position of supporting Ukraine. But Europe stepped up, and Europe filled that gap.

That’s why I think the Russians feel they have to engage with Europe. That doesn’t mean they want to engage constructively. I think they want to divide Europe. They want to undermine Europe. They want to demoralize Europe. They want to intimidate Europe. But they need some kind of dialogue.

So from Putin’s perspective, it likely makes sense to take such a call, because it creates this dialogue and, to a certain extent, undermines the idea of European unity, since we’re already seeing various European countries say: “We’re not sure about this approach. We don’t support it. We weren’t consulted. We don’t know what their agenda is.”

So this serves many of Russia’s objectives; it ticks a lot of boxes for Russia, I’d say.

Full version of the interview: watch the video

So you think this phone call isn’t a show of strength on the Kremlin’s part, but rather… I wouldn’t want to speculate on desperation, but something interesting is happening.

No, what I mean is that they recognize: from Russia’s perspective, it’s very clear that as long as Europe remains united in its support for Ukraine, it’s very difficult for Russia to win the war decisively.

It’s very difficult for them to achieve a decisive, final breakthrough and ultimate victory – which is what Putin needs, which is, in essence, the minimum he must achieve. And he must insist on this.

So he needs to take Europe out of the game. They must break this European support.

Why Finland and Norway, of all countries, decided to talk to the dictator

European leaders have just sent a clear signal that, together with Ukraine, they will continue to support Ukraine. But why are European leaders – especially Finland and Norway’s leaders – interested in direct talks with Putin, given that this was the first high-level call since the start of the full-scale war?

Obviously, I wasn’t present during the call, so I don’t know what was said. From what we’ve seen in the reports, they didn't say much. It seems they definitely didn’t say anything new, and I think that’s the problem.

I think one of my main concerns is that if Europe wants to have a voice, it needs to have something to say. And at this point, it’s unclear whether they actually went into yesterday’s call with anything specific they wanted to say.

I get the impression that they were more in the mindset of, “We want to call just for the sake of calling, to say, ‘Here we are. We’re in the conversation. We’re part of it.’” But I think they really need a position – a unified European position. Why is this happening now? I think it’s all because of America. It’s all because of Trump. It’s all because of concerns in Europe that they are no longer under the broader American security umbrella.

Now they’re much more responsible for their own security. And yet this massive war is taking place in Europe, and they’re on the sidelines. They’re not participating in this process. They need to be part of it.

So they’re trying to find a way to get into this so-called peace process. I’d be quite cynical to even call it a peace process, but they’re trying to get a foot in the door somehow.

Don’t you think we’re underestimating our European partners? They must know what to say to Moscow during such a call, especially Alexander Stubb, the President of Finland.

They may know on a personal level. These people aren’t stupid. They understand who Putin is, and they understand what Russia is all about. But do they represent Europe? Do they speak on behalf of Europe? That’s the key question.

When you talk about these things, you have to speak from a position of strength. You have to carry real weight here. You have to have military power and economic power.

And yet the Prime Minister of Norway and the President of Finland cannot speak for Europe. They do not speak on behalf of Europe. They cannot make any decisions. They cannot impose any agreements.

So when they talk to the Russians, from the Russian perspective it looks like this: “Okay, interesting guys, but who do they represent?” And that’s always the problem with Europe.

What the Kremlin Really Wants

While these talks about so-called possible peace negotiations are taking place, Lavrov is simultaneously declaring that Russia intends to intensify its attacks on Ukrainian cities. There are so many contradictions here.

To be honest, I’d say all the contradictions are in our own heads. There isn’t a single contradiction there.

It’s a very clear Russian position. They’re going to win the war, and that’s it. There’s not a single signal from Russia that they want to compromise or end the war. There’s nothing – literally zero.

We’re getting this from Trump. Trump says Putin wants peace. Witkoff says, “We think they want to strike a deal.” We might hear this from certain European sources, but we never hear it from Russia.

So it’s all in our heads. It’s almost wishful thinking – we want to believe that maybe they’re looking for a compromise.

But in reality, they’re acting according to a different logic. Much more significant were Putin’s comments when he said that the Ukrainian territory held by Russia had never been Ukrainian to begin with. Supposedly, “this is Russian territory.”

This is not a man who is waiting for a compromise. This is not a man who is looking for a way out. This is someone who says, “Ukraine does not exist.”

According to his own logic, according to his own distorted view of history, there is no way Putin could accept this peace. It may seem irrational to us, but there is a certain rationality to it.

But don’t you think that Russia isn’t in such a strong position right now? There are no major movements on the front lines; we know about the Ukrainian operations, and it’s now clear that they cannot capture the entire Donbas.

Yes. Militarily speaking, of course, Putin’s goals seem very far off. But he’s looking for ways to get around that.

So we’re now seeing an intensification of attacks on Ukrainian cities. And I think the fact that Lavrov is talking about this – the fact that Putin is also openly talking about bombing Ukrainian cities – is an admission that they intend to do so.

I think the Russian strategy at this stage is very clear. They want to make Ukraine itself as uninhabitable as possible, to destroy the very means of basic survival: utilities, heating, electricity, water supply, transportation, trade, and business.

And at the same time, they aim to undermine European support for Ukraine by intimidating Europeans, threatening them with a shadow or hybrid war, and supporting all pro-Russian parties in Europe.

America is already doing what it needs to do. America is, in essence, already retreating, distancing itself, and looking for opportunities to build bridges with the Russians. So for Putin, this is his vision.

Putin has once again returned to his old demands regarding NATO’s borders and Ukraine’s membership. How can he dictate anything now, when he has no achievements on the battlefield?

It’s a dictator’s disease: all dictators eventually become increasingly intoxicated by power and increasingly cut off from reality, because they surround themselves with people whose very existence depends on the dictator.

Putin has created this image of Russia as a great power. And yet what we’re seeing in Ukraine is, in fact, the opposite of that in a military sense. They’ve performed very poorly, and he has very little to show for it.

So yes, Putin is certainly being fed fantasies, and he repeats them because he must maintain this idea of an inevitable Russian victory. It is important for the Russian military effort, for convincing the Russian public, and for the international audience.

Why Trump Trusts Putin

We know one person who really loves these stories and believes all these fairy tales that Putin spins. I’m talking about Donald Trump. Why does the American leader, who has access to very good intelligence, still believe that Putin is winning?

I think there are many factors at play here. First, Trump tends to think that many people are lying to him, especially those he considers his political enemies. And Ukraine is part of that group in his mind.

So he assumes they’re all lying to him, and he’s inclined to believe anyone who comes along and says, “Actually, the truth is different.” He likes that approach.

But I think much of what he says about the war is a repetition of what Putin told him. He says, “The Russians have too many people. They have an inexhaustible supply of soldiers.” This is, obviously, nonsense. But Putin probably told him that, and Trump wants to believe it.

We could speculate all day about the true nature of Trump’s relationship with Putin and with Russia. It’s clearly a very murky, troubling relationship. It goes back decades.

We may never know exactly what this relationship is about, but we do know that it is very long-standing, very significant, and that it shapes his actions today in the war against Ukraine.

And the U.S. position, essentially, is this: just force Ukraine to surrender, because Russia is going to win anyway.

Do you think this pressure will continue even after the election?

We’ll see. By all indications, there will be a blue wave. The Democrats will win the midterm elections. And to some extent, this looks like a rejection of Trump’s policies.

This will limit his ability to act decisively. I think it may limit his ability to be very pro-Russian. Certainly, one of the things that will come under close scrutiny is his relationship with Russia.

But I don’t think we should expect America to suddenly do an about-face and once again become a country that strongly supports Ukraine, as it did under Biden. Trump will be more constrained, but that doesn’t mean a complete reversal of policy.

I’m surprised that right now, when Ukraine is achieving successes on the battlefield, Trump has started taking so many steps that look like they’re helping Putin.

Yes. This is extremely suspicious, and I’d say it’s very unlikely that it’s a coincidence. At this stage, these are legitimate questions.

Even in the U.S. itself, even within the Republican Party, traditionally right-wing, pro-Republican media outlets are raising these questions. They’re asking, “Why is Trump doing this now? Is he rushing to help Putin while he still can?”

There’s another point: Ukraine is currently faring better on the battlefield. And if the Americans had taken a different approach and said, “Okay, we’ll give Ukraine more support; we’ll supply it with Patriots,” that would have made sense. But in reality, he did the opposite.

He withdrew that support and gave new momentum to Russia’s military efforts. So yes, there’s a lot that’s very suspicious.

Will the U.S. president continue to push for negotiations so actively? And let’s also talk about possible negotiations in Abu Dhabi.

To be honest, I think the entire so-called peace process, led by the Americans and Trump, is a diplomatic charade. Everyone is trying to play their part because no one wants to be the one blamed for the failure.

That’s why everyone says, “Yes, of course, we want that.” Even the Russians. Everyone is playing along with this grand theatrical performance.

But I simply don’t see any signs that the Russians are interested in a peace agreement. Putin has become so deeply entangled in this war – he has made it the central theme of his entire reign – that I don’t see how he can extricate himself from it at this stage.

So Abu Dhabi, or whatever it may be – that’s fine. Let’s hope that this leads to some prisoner exchanges, some humanitarian outcomes. Because so far, that’s been the only real result.

Why Did Washington Start Pressuring Ukraine Over Starlink and Patriot

Starlink and Starshield have been restored, but a bitter aftertaste remains. Why do you think they did this to Ukraine again?

I doubt that Trump came up with this idea on his own in a technical sense. I don’t think he understands the systems well enough to say, “Here’s what we need to do. We need to limit the speed.” Perhaps someone else suggested it.

But from a Ukrainian perspective, it doesn’t really matter who exactly made that decision. The fact is that the Americans – the Trump administration, the current U.S. government – decided to “punish” the Ukrainians.

I think they did this because Ukraine didn’t sign the agreement they wanted it to sign. And here, a comment by Putin’s adviser Ushakov is very important; he said that after Anchorage, Moscow believed the Americans would dictate to the Ukrainians the peace agreement that Russia wanted.

So, essentially, Trump and Putin reached an agreement in the summer of 2023 that the U.S. would pressure Ukraine to accept Russia’s peace terms. And Russia’s peace terms, in essence, mean that Ukraine would not be able to exist as a sovereign nation.

In other words, the goal is to pressure Ukraine into giving in – essentially, to make it capitulate. And this, in my opinion, very convincingly explains much of what happened next.

Trump presumably went to Zelenskyy and said, “Okay, here’s the deal. You have to agree to it.” And Zelenskyy said, “Uh, no.” Then the Europeans backed Ukraine, and Trump got angry.

When you look at the situation with Starlink in conjunction with other factors, the picture becomes clear. The withholding of Patriot missiles, the halt in intelligence sharing, and the Starlink disruptions – these are the three main levers they currently have, and all three have been deployed in recent weeks.

Intelligence sharing has been halted. Starlink has been shut down. Arms sales have been suspended, and Patriot deliveries have been put on hold. Coincidences happen, but not that often.

And no one in Washington wanted to admit it, didn’t want to take responsibility. Everyone said, “It’s a technical problem,” “It was him,” “It was them.” It was a blame game.

I think they all understood: “We’re doing this. This is our policy.” And the story about violations of the rules for using Starlink seemed like a very flimsy cover-up.

What was the Kremlin’s goal in creating a humanitarian catastrophe in Oleshky?

We have another representative of America who is probably even more effective than Donald Trump – his wife, Melania Trump, with her initiative to bring about a ceasefire in Oleshky. What do you think of this initiative?

It would be very funny if she were awarded a peace prize. That would be fantastic. But I don’t want to belittle Melania Trump.

I find it hard to believe that she’s currently negotiating peace agreements with the Kremlin. Maybe her team is particularly professional – who knows. But the cynic in me says that perhaps this idea came about because they realized how bad their recent actions regarding Ukraine looked.

Maybe they said, “We need to change the narrative here and create the impression that at least something is working. There’s some progress.” And so they cobbled this scheme together.

As far as I understand, this issue was initially raised by the Pope; the Vatican was leading it, and then suddenly we hear that it’s Melania’s initiative.

But on a humanitarian level, this is certainly an important initiative. I wouldn’t read too much into it in terms of a larger war, but it could be helpful.

I’ve been following the situation in Oleshky and have come to the conclusion that people there were starving and had no access to medicine. Perhaps this is Putin’s dream – to turn all of Ukraine into a place where it’s unbearable for Ukrainians to live?

Yes. The Russian military’s actions in Ukraine are clearly designed to cause humanitarian disasters. When you attack a city and its heating, power, and water systems in the winter, when the temperature is minus 20, there’s no gray area here.

This is a clear attempt to cause a humanitarian catastrophe. And why would you cause a humanitarian catastrophe? To kill many people and force the survivors to flee. Even the United Nations – which is a very conservative organization when it comes to assigning blame – has now come out and said that this is a crime against humanity.

They have very specifically pointed out the deliberate nature of these actions. Look at how the Russians are behaving. Look at what they’re saying. Look at how they’re acting. It’s obvious that this is their goal.

And this makes one wonder just how accustomed the international community has become to the horrors of this war. If, just a few years ago, people had been told that Russia would try to bomb European cities and cause a massive humanitarian catastrophe, while Europe would essentially do nothing and America would stand on the sidelines, they wouldn’t have believed it.

But Putin, I think, had a much better understanding of the international community than we did. He was far more cynical and realized: “They won’t do anything. They’ll just talk a lot.”

At the forum, Putin literally said, “Don’t you dare dictate to us who we should deal with.” And now he seems to truly feel he is in a position of strength.

Putin understands only the language of force. He doesn’t care about rhetorical flourishes, bold statements, condemnations, or “deep concern.” He cares about actions and power.

And financially speaking, what we’re seeing now is a signal from the Americans: “We want to do business with you.” For the Russians, this is a very clear signal: “Okay, we can move forward. We have the green light.”

According to reports about contacts with American emissaries, the Americans simply laid out the deals and said: “Okay, reopen the Russian pipelines; start with this deal, start with that one. This will be a financial package for Ukraine as soon as you agree to hand over the Donbas.”

And this, in essence, means that to them, it all looks like a business deal. This is a complete misunderstanding of who Putin is and what this war is about. And what Ukraine is fighting for.

What consequences has the war in Iran had for the U.S.?

There’s a lot of information circulating about a new round of war between the United States, Israel, and Iran. What’s true, and what’s just noise? Why does Trump need this right now?

The war in Iran is a terrible quagmire for Trump. He got himself into this, and it’s obvious he didn’t have any real plan.

I think when he got himself into this, he was very inspired by the ease with which he achieved success in Venezuela. That success, I think, was very dangerous because it convinced Trump – who is instinctively reluctant to use military force – that it could be easy and straightforward.

Then he turned his attention to Iran, and it became a disaster. He didn’t achieve his goals. He undermined American authority – diplomatic authority – and caused enormous damage to the global economy and the American economy.

And now it’s clear that the Iranians, to use Trump’s own words, hold many cards. America has no real solution for the Strait of Hormuz.

We now know that it can be closed, and the Iranians can close it, and no one can do anything about it. This is a turning point in global history – certainly in international security – and not in a good way from a Western perspective.

This greatly strengthens Iran, China, and Russia. It’s a disaster. And Trump simply doesn’t know what to do right now.

He’s floundering, trying to find a way out, pretending he doesn’t care when he clearly does, trying to change the subject by attacking Ukrainians or blaming Zelenskyy.

This is bad news for him, for America, and, unfortunately, for Ukraine, because it strengthens Russia, weakens America, and distracts the world.

What is life like in Kyiv right now?

To sum up, what’s your sense of life in Kyiv right now? How are your feelings evolving here?

The “two-walls rule.” Yes. Right now, it’s actually three walls. But in Kyiv, to be honest, now that we don’t have any interceptors, you feel it every day.

I think saying that this is a frontline city is probably an exaggeration – not because it’s not dangerous here, but because frontline cities are so dangerous.

But people were looking for a way to express the fact that it has become much more dangerous in Ukraine, in Kyiv – and that’s true. It has clearly become much riskier. There’s much more uncertainty.

Before, it was like this: “Okay, there might be one big bombing at night.” Now it’s essentially at any time. You never know when they’ll strike, when missiles – and especially jet-powered drones – might hit.

So there’s definitely a sense of uncertainty, definitely a sense of danger. And at the same time, life goes on.

I often find it hard to explain to friends and family back home what it’s like to live in this kind of environment. Obviously, it’s unpleasant, but home is home.

I hope to stay here in Kyiv with my family. In my opinion, this is still the best city in the world, but these are very difficult times. And we desperately need more support from the U.S. and the West in terms of air defense to give us the best chance to protect ourselves and our families.