"No One Believes Putin Anymore": An Exclusive Interview with Ogryzko on the Dictator's Fears and Nuclear Blackmail

In an exclusive interview with Channel 24, the Ukrainian diplomat and Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine in 2007 – 2009, Volodymyr Ogryzko explained why the Kremlin’s nuclear threats amount to blackmail, called the CSTO a sham organization, and commented on media reports alleging that Western embassies were preparing to relocate from Kyiv.

Separately, the diplomat spoke out sharply against statements by some Ukrainian politicians regarding a “reconciliation” with Russia, warning against attempts to revive a pro-Russian party in Ukraine during the war.

How is Putin revealing his fear?

Putin’s motorcade is now protected by a helicopter. He is urgently stepping up security measures. Or perhaps Putin is afraid not only of Ukrainian drones but also of his own inner circle, since he is stepping up security so drastically and relocating events? And regarding the CSTO: It’s pointless to even say that this is already a senseless entity. But was it ever anything else?

I recalled a recent incident where a Russian fighter jet shot down a Russian helicopter because it mistook it for a Ukrainian drone. I think a certain parallel can be drawn here. No helicopters, no security detail – nothing will save Putin from his downfall. It’s just good to say these things out loud.

As for the CSTO – it’s a soap bubble. It’s something that has practically never meant anything. The CSTO’s track record was on full display when the conflict between Azerbaijan and Armenia broke out. Armenia was counting on “mighty” Russia to come to its aid and protect it from Azerbaijan. “Mighty” Russia didn’t lift a finger and said, “No, that’s a completely different story.”

It’s one thing to speak at some meetings or conferences, but it’s quite another to actually do something concrete. After that, Armenia declared that the CSTO would never exist again and began the process of withdrawing from the organization. That’s the CSTO in all its glory.

And as for the propagandists airing all those clips on TV – putting up backdrops here, placing some dimwits there – that’s just par for the course. Everyone likes to see someone saluting there, someone responding to something. And Putin is in the spotlight – even if he’s not in uniform, he’s among the military, so it looks like he’s participating in some way.

So here, to be honest, there’s no point in talking about the CIS, the CSTO, or all these hollow structures. They’re completely fake. Just like, in fact, everything in Russia. Look, the so-called elections to the Duma took place. What is the Duma in Russia? Are there political parties in Russia?

There’s no one there to think, and there’s no point in doing so. There’s one thief who thinks for everyone, and everyone just sits there and puts up with it for now, because they’re slaves. But I don’t think it’ll last long.

Full interview: watch the video

What are the U.S. and China planning with regard to Russia?

Political analysts say that Putin wants a new Yalta – a tripartite world order involving the U.S., Russia, and China. Because if the CSTO is a paper tiger and a soap bubble, then Putin is surely counting on China to be his loyal friend and ally. Does he want to be in this photo and in the annals of history among the three great powers, but in reality, where does he really belong among them?

That’s true. As they say, no one’s stopping him from wanting it – he’s free to want it – but the real question is: why would those other two want this clumsy, this swampy entity that’s actually nothing to speak of? Economically speaking, comparing China and Russia, or the U.S. and Russia – you’d have to be quite the daydreamer to imagine anything there.

Unless, of course, both are thinking about how to later exploit Russia’s available resources. That, I think, is a topic that’s entirely practical and pragmatic for the two of them.

At the same time, it’s worth noting that Trump, for some reason, believes that by keeping Putin in power, he’ll be able to exploit Russia most effectively. This is yet another Trumpian fantasy and mistake.

Xi Jinping is far ahead of him in this regard; he has been quietly and calmly exploiting Russia exactly as he pleases for quite some time now, and he does so with great pleasure, telling the Russians that he loves them dearly.

Putin, by the way, said again at this same so-called Valdai Forum that Xi is his great friend, showering him with compliments. The Chinese take this in stride because they understand that Putin has simply nowhere to run from that ship – physically, politically, and, above all, economically. That’s why they do whatever they want.

To have some incompetent person in their midst spouting wild ideas and threats – including nuclear ones – is more than just irresponsible. Especially since Xi has repeatedly stated that Russia will never use nuclear weapons. Both Western diplomats and Chinese politicians are already discussing this in bilateral meetings – that Xi has, in principle, forbidden Putin from even speaking on this topic.

So, this is yet another proof that we are dealing exclusively with blackmail, exclusively with intimidation, and exclusively with an attempt to put the West – primarily Europe – in a position where it must be afraid.

That’s why I don’t think Trump or Xi would want such a partner. Maybe they’ll pose for a photo somewhere in the hallway, and then Moscow’s propaganda machine will beat the drum for three days, claiming that the meeting actually took place. We know what to make of such meetings. It’s all a charade.

Will Moscow dare to launch a nuclear strike?

Latvian Defense Minister Raivis Melnis cites hybrid attacks – not the nuclear threat itself – as Europe’s main concern. NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte calls for calm and support for Ukraine. So am I correct in understanding that Putin’s nuclear gun is hanging on the wall again, but no one is buying tickets to this Russian spectacle anymore or falling for it, and support for Ukraine won’t wane? What is Putin trying to achieve with these threats?

You know, this is actually good news for both us and the Europeans. They simply understand by now that this is all just endless talk that will never lead to anything concrete.

Both Rutte’s reaction and the reaction of some politicians clearly say: go ahead and say what you want, of course, but we’re no longer interested in that. We’re not going to take this seriously anymore, because there’s nothing to react to.

Look, here’s Putin’s logic: if they attack the Kaliningrad region, the Russians will start retaliating, and so on. I worked in the West for many years and know many European politicians. I have never in my life even heard a hint that any Western country is planning to attack Russia. That is simply the most absurd of all absurdities. Yet Putin’s logic is built precisely on this absurdity.

This isn’t aimed at anyone other than the “general public,” because everyone in the West has already realized perfectly well that it’s all a bluff and that Putin would never do anything of the sort.

What do the rumors about “embassies relocating” from Kyiv indicate?

At the same time, we see that Putin has started bombing bridges. The enemy’s intent is clear – to paralyze the city and cause panic. Against this backdrop, reports are emerging that Western embassies are preparing contingency plans to relocate from Kyiv in case of even more targeted attacks. The Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs explains that it has not received any notifications from foreign diplomatic missions regarding their intention to relocate. Why are these rumors surfacing in the form of headlines about an evacuation?

I communicate with Western ambassadors and colleagues on a regular basis. I haven’t seen anything that would indicate we’re about to start making preparations. In fact, I met with several colleagues just a few days ago. There have been no discussions on this topic.

And you know, all these “one diplomat said” stories – it reminds me of, you know, some old lady at Bessarabka telling someone something out of the blue. Of course, you can consider this a source of information, or you can see it as a deliberate information provocation, thrown out there to make people think: “Oh, what’s going on if they’re already leaving?”

They’ll recall the eve of the full-scale invasion, when European diplomats – instead of doing the opposite of what they actually did – ended up fleeing Kyiv. That’s true.

Right now, this is essentially an attempt to exploit that negative experience – shared by many, though not all. I want to reiterate here that there were diplomats who remained in Kyiv and did not leave. And that was a vivid example of the fact that solidarity exists, has always existed, and will continue to exist.

But now this is being used solely to send a certain signal. You see, if even they are gathering, well, then something unpleasant is going to happen, and so on.

But I’d like to mention one more aspect here. We’ve seen some political figures who have simply copied – presumably from Putin’s speeches in Valdai and earlier – their own talking points and are starting to put them out there in the public sphere. They say, “After all, the main thing for us is that there be no war.” And, unfortunately, these are not isolated cases.

How are some Ukrainian politicians playing into the Kremlin’s hands?

Regarding the statements made by certain politicians, specifically Oleksiy Honcharenko: It’s obvious that this is simply playing into the enemy’s hands. What’s the point of this right now?

And this is not just Goncharenko, unfortunately. Look, there are even a couple of figures in the governing coalition who beat their chests and say that we must finally make peace, that we are representatives of the party of peace, while everyone else is a representative of the party of war. And all of this is bad; we need to change it all. Some mayors are very actively beating their chests and shouting that yes, we need to make peace with Russia already, and kiss and hug each other.

Listen, this Russian party – unfortunately, it hasn’t gone anywhere. It lay low for a while, kept quiet, and now it’s taking advantage of certain difficult situations. We’ll talk about this completely frankly, but it’s resurfacing and essentially repeating all these Kremlin directives.

If you analyze whatGoncharenko says and what Putin says, five out of six points match. So what’s this about? It’s about the Ukrainian patriotic stance; it’s about uniting around our army, which today is bearing the brunt of the attack and holding its ground with dignity.

I also talk with military personnel, and no one even questions for a moment that the Ukrainian army will hold the front line. And as we’re seeing right now, some of our heroic units are pushing back the enemy – and doing so quite effectively. And under these circumstances, to shout “let’s capitulate and surrender” – I don’t know what there is to talk about then.

I’m very glad that the political party “Eurosolidarity” has made a clear and unambiguous statement on this matter. But the fact that some pro-government figures are once again dreaming of a truce – and so far there has been no reaction – frankly, that frightens me.

And who will support these statements? They won’t resonate with the general public.

Absolutely. It’s obvious that this will turn these people into outcasts. But you know, these are outcasts with a history, because some of them already wanted to surrender back in March of 2022 and signed certain documents. And now we’re seeing a resurgence of this whole surrender mentality.

I think that many of those who are currently engaging in this kind of rhetoric will, first of all, be ashamed, because I think our heroes will tell them what to do and what not to do. And so I think these marginal outbursts will come to nothing.

But our government institutions must provide both a political and, at times, a legal assessment of such statements. How can we allow such blatantly pro-Russian, capitulationist statements? Under wartime conditions, I simply cannot imagine this.